chemosh vs yahweh

The great wrath may refer to the divine wrath of Chemosh! God always holds up his end of the bargain, but Israel rarely if-ever gets their end right. Moab was not "handed over". In the same way, much of the prophetic literature of the Bible claims that Israel and later Judah had lost its land because Yahweh was angered at them for forsaking his laws and commandments. Moabite King Mesha. Press J to jump to the feed. Rav and Shmuel engage in a dispute concerning this. The Gemara cites a verse concerning the king of Moab: Then he took his eldest son, who should have reigned in his stead, and sacrificed him for a burnt offering upon the wall; and there was great indignation against Israel, and they departed from him and returned to their own land (II Kings 3:27). Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. So Jacob swore by the Fear of his father Isaac, (Genesis 31:53, RSV). Would you believe that sometimes Yahweh actually loses to other deities or armies in the Bible? As Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi raises a contradiction: It is written concerning the Jewish people: You have not walked in My statutes, neither have you kept My ordinances; nor have you done according to the statutes of the nations that are round about you (Ezekiel 5:7), and it is also written: You have done according to the statutes of the nations that are round about you (Ezekiel 11:12). And his son followed him and he also said, I will humble Moab. In my time he spoke thus, but I have triumphed over him and over his house, while Israel has perished forever! [7] Possibly Israel had the wrong allies and this angered Jehovah. The entire old testament talks about the failure of the people of God. But the Deuteronomist also took liberties in retelling the Moab tradition, whose contradictions weve also already noted. [8] This defence is an ad-hoc Loki's wager by unreasonably refusing to accept the verses implications. This does not seem likely since Jehovah had promised Israel would prevail over the Moabites and it is not suggested in the text. 25:3 is essentially the same god as Chemosh, who is identified with the name (or place) Baal-meon above. ISBN links support NWE through referral fees, https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/p/index.php?title=Chemosh&oldid=1018011, Creative Commons Attribution/Share-Alike License. Although HaShem abhors human sacrifice, he nevertheless realized the intention of the Gentile to honor him, wrong as it was, and punished Israel for the fact that the gentiles at this time were giving him better honor than they were. Thus we come to understand, and I would argue even appreciate, the literature of the Bible with its theological argument that Yahweh granted land and took land away to/from his people and other peoples as nothing more than an ancient theological interpretive lens through which the vicissitudes of the ancient Near Eastern world played itself out. This is just one among dozens of other textual examples. Twitter. we can see this in the story of Elijah vs the Baal worshipers, 1 Kings 18:24 Then you call on the name of your gods (Eloheychem), and I will call on the name of the LORD (YHVH). The Moabites, Ammonites, and Israelites were reportedly kinsmen, and the Israelites sometimes worshiped Chemosh, as well as their own national god, Yahweh. S o begins one of the most extraordinary ancient documents ever found. Mar 4 19M. The Hebrew word there, , is exclusively used in Classical Hebrew to describe the wrath of a deity. We might even conclude that reality for them, as for us, is never an objective thing out there, but is always understood subjectively: We impose a narrative, be it theological or otherwise, onto reality or the reality that we perceive, in a humanly attempt to understand it and our place in it. Put another away, 'Yahweh is an Elohim, but no other Elohim are Yahweh - he is NOT a 'species equal'. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, atheist w.r.t the Christian God | agnostic w.r.t others. (Num 31:1-12 vs Deut 2-3), Genesis 2:18-20Man/Animals from the Ground, Woman from Man, #278. But according to the one who says that he sacrificed him for the sake of idol worship, why would the verse state: And there wasindignation? Discovered in 1868 at Dhiban, Jordan (biblical "Dibon," the capital of Moab), the inscription of 34 lines is the most extensive document ever recovered referring contemporaneously to ancient Israel. In fact, Yahweh appears to be only one of Elyons 70 sons. They walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. ", And you claim //God, in answer to this question, says, "you will destroy it entirely." But grace is doing less than you are capable in the name of mercy and love. New World Encyclopedia writers and editors rewrote and completed the Wikipedia article It is an attempt to understand man, including our forefathers, in all his aspects. [4] [1], Other argue that Jehovah was angry because of the sacrifice but this does not account for Israel's defeat and withdrawal. The men of Gad lived in the land of Atarot from ancient times; and the king of Israel built Atarot for himself. Chemosh was the most powerful God worshipped by the Moabites and by some Israelites. //, It does NOT say "the Israelites became afraid and stopped fighting.". Modern so-called readers of these ancient texts who are devoid of such contexts and the knowledge they bring often mistake and misunderstand this theme by taking it at face value. An unmistakable linguistic parallel with the Hebrew text underlying the Septuagint reading was thus discovered, one that prompted many scholars to accept the Septuagintal reading on logical and philological grounds--God (El Elyon in Deut. Nergal Baal Berith Anammelech Nibhaz Ninurta Dagon. The last interpretation implies that Chemosh was a real god and caused the defeat of the army that Jehovah supported and had previously promised victory. Is Joshua allowed to enter the Tent of Meeting OR are only Aaronid priests? Do you think the Aranid priesthood had control of the temples in Samaria (Israel) before Assyria destroyed it, and only reappeared during the Babylonian exile? At times, human sacrifice was dedicated to Chemosh, as it was to Molech and occasionally to Yahweh as well. The Hebrew scorn for his worship was evident in a curse from the scriptures:"the abomination of Moab." The concept of holy war (Hebrew: erem ), Hendel points out, is referenced several times in the Hebrew Bible and is a major theme in the Book of Joshua. You sure you have the right flair? their gods are all part of a pantheon of wars between gods where as The G-d of Israel created the mythologies so any battle that the jews lost was not him losing but part of his world. The other nations worshiped Baal and Asherah, and so many Israelites felt a pull to do the same. Chemosh is one of the few gods of Israel's neighbors for whom we have a contemporary source with which to compare the biblical account. So we see that this idea of a god decreeing land to his people and conversely having another nation conquer and take away that promised land because of the peoples disobedience toward their god was also a common theological and literary perspective to understanding the vicissitudes (i.e., lands conquered and lost) of the geopolitical world that these nations lived in. Privacy Policy. Chemosh and Yahweh were cut from the same dusty, desert cloth as all the other blood-drinking gods of the ancient Semites, and the idea of human sacrifice was never far from their superstitious minds. Chemosh was the national deity of the Moabites and who was also worshipped by the Ammonites. He was very respected and was considered by the people to be all-knowing and all-powerful. It is not known how long the private worship of Chemosh in Judah and Moab actually continued. (Num 10:12 vs Num 11:35), #27. I also want to thank all the non-apologists such as John Kesler for their contributions. We furthermore see that both the Yahwist and the Deuteronomic texts were written to legitimate Israelite ownership of norther Moab as a counter-argument to the claims of the Mesha stele. Moreover, P (at least here in the itinerary of Num 33) makes no mention of Amorites, an Amorite conquest, nor a Transjordanian conquest for that matter! This apparently causes the defeat of Israel and their allied armies: 2 Kings 3:27, This is an example of failed prophecy in the Bible. Later still, the tradition of monotheism emerged, in which other gods were regarded either as non-existent "false" deities, or as demons masquerading as God. Ugaritic mythology plainly states that the head of its pantheon, El (who, like the God of the Bible, is also referred to as El Elyon, the "Most High") fathered seventy sons, thereby specifying the number of the "sons of El" (Ugaritic, bn il). Does Yahweh regret and change his mind OR does he not? 221:27-30; Jer. As for Omri, king of Israel, he humbled Moab many years, for Chemosh was angry at his land. And I fought against the city and captured it. Thus, it would seem that Semitic regard for respective national deities operated similarly from region to region. What part of "every" don't you understand? https://firstbiblenetwork.com Scholars say that YHWH is most likely derived from the Hebrew verb hayah, which means "to be.". Apologists may prefer either one of the first 2 possibilities, but these raise more problems. Will B. says In 1967, Raphael Patai was . Scholars contend that both the 7th century Deuteronomist and the 6th century Priestly writer reworked in different fashion the earlier Yahwist-Elohist tradition. Thank you for all your hard work here. We know that Yahweh's brother, Chemosh, got the region of the Moabites. Moabites, the People of Chemosh: The national God of the Moabites, as Baal of the Zidonians, or Milcom (Moloch, Malcam) of the Ammonites. [6]. Baal or Moloch or Chemoshthe name may change, but their bloodthirsty appetite for the most acceptable offering of infants does not. As noted in the footnotes of the NET bible: [2]. Resheph | Shalim | Yarikh | Yam | YHWH, Adad | Amurru | An/Anu | Anshar | Ashur | Abzu/Apsu | Enki/Ea | Enlil | Ereshkigal | Inanna/Ishtar | Kingu | Kishar | Lahmu & Lahamu | Marduk | Mummu | Nabu | Nammu | Nanna/Sin | Nergal | Ningizzida | Ninhursag | Ninlil | Tiamat | Utu/Shamash. Elyon, the father, divided up the earth and his son Yahweh received the portion of the earth that came to be known as Israel. Like the Hebrew god Yahweh, he blessed his people with military victory when they pleased him, and allowed them to be conquered by their enemies when they did not. We already saw how the Deuteronomist prepared its readers for this rightful taking of the promised land by creating and presenting precedents: This was all to set up the conquering and dispossession of the indigenous peoples of the land of Canaan and some of Transjordan as promised to the children of Jacob by Yahweh, and this dispossession begins with the taking of northern Moab from Sihon. In 2 Kings 3:27 we find that human sacrifice was part of the rites of Chemosh. in Comparative Literature; B.A. (Ex 33:11 vs Num 1:51, 3:10, 3:38, 18:5-7), #224. Instead, it makes sense that it was the Moabite deity who would respond to a Moabite human sacrifice and fight against the Israelite military coalition. Please, How would the Pre-Nicene Christians view the tumultuous events of today? "We have ample and melancholy evidence on this subject from the records of antiquity." It was believed that human sacrifice to Baal held the key to prosperity. Yahweh admits that Chemosh is more powerful than Yahweh when Chemosh receives the Moabite king's son as a human sacrifice. The fury against Israel was great; they withdrew and returned to their own land. Just like many of the other verses we have looked at, the translators have "fixed" this text so that it better fits with the monotheistic view. 48:7, 13, 46). He attributes his successes to his god, to whom he has dedicated a lofty shrine (high place) at "Qarcho. The destroyer, subduer, or fish-god, the god of the Moabites (Numbers 21:29; Jeremiah 48:7, 13, 46).The worship of this god, "the abomination of Moab," was introduced at Jerusalem by Solomon (1 Kings 11:7), but was abolished by Josiah (2 Kings 23:13).On the "Moabite Stone" (q.v. Northern Moab: land Chemosh decrees to the Moabites OR Yahweh decrees to the Israelites? [3] Apologetics Support the show with bitcoin: fbn@getalby.com Retrieved from https://www.learnreligions.com/chemosh-lord-of-the-moabites-117630. Elohim, singular Eloah, (Hebrew: God), the God of Israel in the Old Testament. What were the borders of the land of Canaan promised to the patriarchs by Yahweh: from the brook of Egypt to the Euphrates, #13. Ba'al | Berith | Chemosh | Dagon | Derceto | Your conclusions don't hold water and you spread lies. The stele was erected by Mesha circa 850 B.C.E . In 2 Kings 3:27 Yahweh not only admits the existence of the Moabite god, Chemosh. God delivered Moab into their hands to do whatever they wanted with it, and what they decided to do is to leave it before getting the job done. They weren't beaten back, they just left. These facts are inexplicable except on the theory that neither Elisha nor Elijah nor the men who wrote their lives denied the existence of the heathen gods. The Mesha Stele, also known as the Moabite Stone, is a black basalt monument bearing an inscription by the ninth century B.C.E. David Noel Freedman suggested Israel's king was descended from the wrong people (the Omride dynasty), thereby caused Jehovah's wrath. This apologetic is completely absent in the Deuteronomic tradition, which acknowledges this land (i.e., northern Moab) as part of the promised land bequeathed to the Israelites by Yahweh. Although HaShem abhors human sacrifice, he nevertheless realized the intention of the Gentile to honor him, wrong as it was, and punished Israel for the fact that the gentiles at this time were giving him better honor than they were. Email. ( , ) " . By command of Chemosh, Mesha attacked Nebo and fought against Israel, and after a fierce struggle he took the place, slaying the inhabitants en masse, 7,000 men and women and maidservants, devoting the city to 'Ashtor-Chemosh and dragging the altar vessels of Yahweh before Chemosh. Solomon erected an altar to Chemosh south of the Mount of Olives outside Jerusalem, on the Hill of Corruption. The cult of Chemosh was eventually destroyed in Judah by King Josiah ( 2 Kings 23 ). If I do not call her, she would still be keeping her end of the promise if she doesn't go on a date with me. Why would an omnipotent being be in any need of war? 16, ln. Why would he respond to a Moabite human sacrifice, break his own prophecy of victory, and force his own armies into retreat? The Israelite attack on Jericho and the spoils reapedare a dedication to God: As Joshua tells his people, "Yahweh has given you the city. This article incorporates text from the 19011906 Jewish Encyclopedia, a publication now in the public domain. Jephthah is disputing the right of the Ammonites to invade territory which belongs to Israel because Yahweh has given it to them by conquest. ), Mesha (2 Kings 3:5) ascribes his victories over the king of Israel to this god, "And Chemosh drove him before my . The Moabite King Mesha dedicated a high place to Chemosh which contained a well-preserved inscription on the so-called Moabite Stone, describing Chemosh's involvement in Mesha's battles against the descendants of the Israelite kings Omri and Ahab. in Hellenistic Judaism; M.A. This is an example of polytheism in the Bible. Within the text, the inscriber mentions Chemosh twelve times. Nice, sure he'll love that. (For the unusual circumstances surrounding its discovery, see Archaeology and Biblical Research, Winter 1991: 2-3).Mesha was ruler of the small kingdom of Moab, east of the Dead Sea, in the mid-ninth century BC.He was a contemporary of Jehoshaphat, king of the . In the last entry (#371), I made an appeal to historical and literary context when reading, and thus understanding, the texts of the Bibleparticularly in relation to the theme of Yahweh granting or promising land to his people. 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Yahweh not only admits the existence of the Moabite Stone, is exclusively in. Raise more problems raise more problems in the public domain an example of polytheism in the public domain NET. Engage in a curse from the scriptures: '' the abomination of Moab. territory which belongs to because!, Creative Commons Attribution/Share-Alike License I also want to thank all the non-apologists such as John Kesler for their..: land Chemosh decrees to the Israelites the footnotes of the most powerful God worshipped the! The men of Gad lived in the name of mercy and love and Moab actually continued the!

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